Date   

Re: Exercise bike ride to La Jolla Cove (second attempt)

Peter Scheir
 

Thanks, I'm interested but again can't committ. Don't hesitate to text me Sunday around 10 if you think of it... was fun last time - though I might stop again at that lovely little cafe near the cove for coffee and brunch!


Peter

On 10/25/2018 9:01 PM, Rob Gordon wrote:
I am planning an exercise bike ride to La Jolla Cove this Sunday as a rain check for the one I missed because of a tire blow out. We ended the jinx we had of "one flat tire every ride" on our ride last week to OB so I would like to try again.  

Plans are to leave Fanuel Park at 11am and take the inland route to the Cove and then back to PB by the coastal route.   Socially paced, but there ls a long but gently sloping hill up Fanuel to get to near where the inland bike path starts near Cass and Turquoise and we will take that real slow.  Anyone in North PB who wants to join us could wait at that cross street.  

I am no longer discouraging beach cruisers - the riders with them did just fine last week and I was the one huffing and puffing.  Ride should be about two hours and there are no plans to stop for lunch - so you should have the lion's share of of your Sunday afternoon left by the time we get back. Hope at least a few of you can join us. 




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Re: Exercise bike ride to La Jolla Cove (second attempt)

Jay
 

Sorry, I have a meeting on Sunday so won't be able to make this ride.


On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 9:01:06 PM UTC-7, Rob Gordon wrote:
I am planning an exercise bike ride to La Jolla Cove this Sunday as a rain check for the one I missed because of a tire blow out. We ended the jinx we had of "one flat tire every ride" on our ride last week to OB so I would like to try again.  

Plans are to leave Fanuel Park at 11am and take the inland route to the Cove and then back to PB by the coastal route.   Socially paced, but there ls a long but gently sloping hill up Fanuel to get to near where the inland bike path starts near Cass and Turquoise and we will take that real slow.  Anyone in North PB who wants to join us could wait at that cross street.  

I am no longer discouraging beach cruisers - the riders with them did just fine last week and I was the one huffing and puffing.  Ride should be about two hours and there are no plans to stop for lunch - so you should have the lion's share of of your Sunday afternoon left by the time we get back. Hope at least a few of you can join us. 


bike lookout.jpg




Fiesta Island Cleanup / Costume Party

Rob Gordon
 

This showed up on Twitter and I have also seen it on posters around town. I've only gone to a few, but I generally like beach cleanups - getting some outdoor exercise and doing something productive with neighbors at the same time. Not sure about this though - I have nothing planned for halloween so don't have a costume together and not sure I would want to work in one in the hot sun anyway.  Some people here might find this fun though so I thought I would mention it - it is certainly different. 

fiesta costume.jpg




Exercise bike ride to La Jolla Cove (second attempt)

Rob Gordon
 

I am planning an exercise bike ride to La Jolla Cove this Sunday as a rain check for the one I missed because of a tire blow out. We ended the jinx we had of "one flat tire every ride" on our ride last week to OB so I would like to try again.  

Plans are to leave Fanuel Park at 11am and take the inland route to the Cove and then back to PB by the coastal route.   Socially paced, but there ls a long but gently sloping hill up Fanuel to get to near where the inland bike path starts near Cass and Turquoise and we will take that real slow.  Anyone in North PB who wants to join us could wait at that cross street.  

I am no longer discouraging beach cruisers - the riders with them did just fine last week and I was the one huffing and puffing.  Ride should be about two hours and there are no plans to stop for lunch - so you should have the lion's share of of your Sunday afternoon left by the time we get back. Hope at least a few of you can join us. 


bike lookout.jpg




Haunted House

Rob Gordon
 

I don't have anything planned for Halloween but just came across this on Nextdoor and thought it was a cool thing to do for the neighborhood, and I might walk through just for grins. It says, "all ages" welcome but I imagine people on this list with kids might appreciate this.

You are invited to our haunted house on Halloween night at the corner of Diamond and Olney in Pacific Beach. There is no charge and be ready to get scared and have some fun. All ages welcome. Starts when it gets dark. Address is 2176 Diamond Street.



haunted house.jpg





Re: Important warning about Facebook groups for members of this community

Rob Gordon
 

By the way - if anyone wants to do something positive about this situation I mentioned that I am looking at another technology to replace this Google Group and could use some help.  It will still email based but more sophisticated and with better user controls.   For example, a thread like this - which I felt was necessary but probably isn't wanted by many members could be "muted".  It is based on "tags: for for example if a post was tagged with "tennis" members who are interested in tennis could follow that topic, and those who are not could mute it.   It also has ""subgroups" so we could set up things for the PB40 Bike Club, the bookworms club we got going here and things like that.  It has social logins for both Facebook and Google and looks like a mature technology that continues to improve.  

I am working on a proposal this week and don't have tons of time but could get started on it.  This kind of work is thankless - actually a little worse than thankless but for obvious reasons I have never felt more strongly that there needs to be an alternative to Facebook.  Drop me a private message if you would like to help.

Rob




On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 8:51:40 PM UTC-7, Rob Gordon wrote:
Hi Everyone - as you know a Facebook group spun off from this group a few months ago, and to my surprise they coexisted pretty well for a while.  Recently, however, a few members publicly announced that they would not support this group and if anyone here wanted to see all the events for "PB over 40" they would have to join that group and frequently check Facebook.  

On the second of these top level posts I responded: that Facebook hardly needed promotional help plus it was all but impossible for anyone here to not know there is a Facebook group so those posts were not only unnecessary they were in some ways damaging to this independent group. 

On a post in the Facebook group, DebbiLyn made constructive comment about how this was dividing the community we had built, and she repeated something I have heard from other Facebook users - that they can't figure out how to use Google Groups. I wrote a fairly long comment about how we have always done much better when we work together with members on Google, Facebook and Nextdoor and we had a really good track record or organizing successful events for people our age group in this neighborhood.  First though, I wanted to address question about how to use Google so explained that all it took was to send an email to pb-over-40@... with the topic in the subject of the email.

IMMEDIATELY after I made this comment ALL access to the PB over 40 group on Facebook was blocked. The shortcuts to that group disappeared from my Facebook page, links to posts I had made there now return a "page not available" message, and even searching for "PB over 40" in the Facebook search box returns "nothing found". A private message from a member of that group confirms that I am no longer on their member list. 

So why did this happen?  First theory is that an Admin removed me from that group - but I know the group owner Lisa and that is not her style - plus she had sent me positive and encouraging messages that very day.  A subsequent email confirmed that she had nothing to do with it.  Could it have been one of the mods?  Possibly, but I am a mod of that group and it would seem odd that someone could remove someone of equal stature.  My conclusion was that most likely I had set off Facebook's censorship algorithm by putting our Google Groups email address in the comment.  I could be wrong, but it really seemed to happen too quickly for it to be anything else.

It gets worse. I wanted to know what to do about this as no one seems to know, and the Facebook help page was of no help at all so I posted it to my own Facebook profile hoping someone who follows me there would know what to do - but none of the responses I got shed any light.  For this reason I posted it on one of the few other groups I am a member of there - the "Social Pacific Beach" group that has about 5000 members.  This time I didn't post the Group email address but I did mention "Google Groups" one so people would know what was going on - I couldn't imagine that would cause any problems but apparently I was wrong.  It didn't happen quite as quickly this time but when I returned from today's bike ride I learned that I have also now been blocked from the large "Social Pacific Beach" group that I have been a member of for some time.

Why did it happen the second time?  I guess it is possible that one of the admins on that group removed me but it seems unlikely - that group is only lightly moderated and they seem to allow just about anything.  The result though is that I am now effectively banned from social groups on the most dominant social media platform in my own neighborhood.  I have asked people to try to find out, but since I can no longer even see that group I don't know who to write to ask about it. 

What I want to make clear is this does not seem at all to be anything close to a normal moderation action. On Google Groups if a suspected spam post is detected it is simply moved to a folder and held until a moderator gets to it and either approves or deletes it. A more extreme action may cause an account to be "suspended" if that member is causing repeated problems  Unless I am missing something or don't understand how Facebook operates, this action completely obliterates your existence in that group. This strikes me as a particularly vicious and brutal way to moderate an online group, and if true I have lots to say about it, but at the moment that is not why I am posting this.  I have given this background information and am posting this for two reasons:

1.  Does anyone know what to do about this?  Can my accounts be restored?  We have a large number of Facebook users here - probably 70 percent of our members are in both groups - and even a few Facebook evangelists.  Do any of them know the procedure for fixing this?

2.  As a warning to members of this community: DO NOT, under any circumstances, use the words "Google Groups" in a post or comment on any Facebook group. Instead, use "that other group", put in some other characters in the name or something like that.

It is possible that there is some other explanation but right now the evidence seems to be point to the likelihood that those words will trigger automatic censorship from Facebook.   It is also possible that Facebook has me somehow flagged as one of the "bad guys" and you can post those words without incident  but I wouldn't take that chance.  Unfortunately I was hoping the discussion on that thread might help us return to the fun cooperation we had before,  but while our members might want that,  Facebook does not  - and even mentioning a competing service (which Google Groups is not) seems to set off some kind of automatic censorship of the worst kind. 

Rob

P.S. Although even a few of our members who strongly dislike Facebook have told me to throw in the towel on this group, I don't give up that easily and do not intend to shut down this shared email list anytime soon. In fact, I thought it likely that we might lose 50 or 60 members after that post telling members here to leave and was prepared to accept that - but I don't think we lost a single person. I even have an idea of how this group could be greatly improved  but my own time constraints puts that off by at least a few weeks and I want to resolve these other issues first. 

Facebook snip.JPG











Re: Important warning about Facebook groups for members of this community

Rob Gordon
 

Yes Sharon, I also saw that comment also before I was blocked, but that was not an Admin - just another member like you. 

Because I have a slow computer I sometimes write my posts in a text file first and it turns out I did save that one.  I have pasted this below so everyone can decide for themselves if they think this is not appropriate.  It might be - as I have said I don't understand or fit in very well with Facebook culture - but the punishment hardly seems to fit the crime. I have been a member of that Facebook group for nearly two years and it wasn't like just getting a single post removed and getting an note from the moderator "don't do that again"  - I have been completely blocked from even seeing posts on that large group - the biggest one for social activities in this neighborhood. 

Again, "Social Pacific Beach"  has always been an "anything goes" forum and I have even seen quasi-criminal activity posted there-  so it seems unlikely that an admin did this as you seem to think.  There's an easy way to find out though - I could just write one of the Admins and ask. If you just wants to disparage me here that is your prerogative, but if you or anyone wants to be helpful you could dig up the name and contact information for one of the Admins there - again, I can no longer even see that community.    Here is the post I made there that got me blocked:"


I have been completely blocked from the "PB over 40" Facebook group which you may have seen promoted here.   I know this isn't an action the group owner took because she is a friend of mine and was sending me positive messages at the time and verified that she doesn't know anything about it.  

That group started on a single post on the Nextdoor app and we organized it and many successful events on Google Groups before the Facebook group even started.   We were discussing how to better coordinate actions between the two groups when I posted some instructions on how to use Google Groups in a comment there by a member who said she didn't know how to use that service.  More or less immediately, that group was made completely inaccessible to me - it disappeared from my shortcuts, all the links to posts I have made return a "page not found" and even when I search for it it says no group like that can be found.

Since a few people there don't like me, I thought it possible that one of the moderators could have blocked me - but I am also a moderator of that group so it doesn't seem like that should be possible.  

Does Facebook really engage in censorship like this?  I helped start that group with my pictures, logo, content, events and a big chunk of my member base. Plus, as I mentioned, I am also a moderator of that group.  It has been nearly a day now - does anyone know how I can get my access to that group back?


On Monday, October 22, 2018 at 10:13:57 AM UTC-7, Sharon S wrote:
Rob

Someone mentioned to you in Social PB that an admin had blocked you. Seems it’s happened twice. I would believe them. Sharon


On Oct 21, 2018, at 8:51 PM, Rob Gordon <calt...@...> wrote:

Hi Everyone - as you know a Facebook group spun off from this group a few months ago, and to my surprise they coexisted pretty well for a while.  Recently, however, a few members publicly announced that they would not support this group and if anyone here wanted to see all the events for "PB over 40" they would have to join that group and frequently check the Facebook.  

On the second of these top level posts I responded: that Facebook hardly needed promotional help plus it was all but impossible for anyone here to not know there is a Facebook group so those posts were not only unnecessary they were in some ways damaging to this independent group. 

On a post in the Facebook group, DebbiLyn made constructive comment about how this was dividing the community we had built, and she repeated something I have heard from other Facebook users - that they can't figure out how to use Google Groups. I wrote a fairly long comment about how we have always done much better when we work together with members on Google, Facebook and Nextdoor and we had a really good track record or organizing successful events for people our age group in this neighborhood.  First though, I wanted to address question about how to use Google so explained that all it took was to send an email to xxxx with the topic in the subject of the email.

IMMEDIATELY after I made this comment ALL access to the PB over 40 group on Facebook was blocked. The shortcuts to that group disappeared from my Facebook page, links to posts I had made there now return a "page not available" message, and even searching for "PB over 40" in the Facebook search box returns "nothing found". A private message from a member of that group confirms that I am no longer on their member list. 

So why did this happen?  First theory is that an Admin removed me from that group - but I know the group owner Lisa and that is not her style - plus she had sent me positive and encouraging messages that very day.  A subsequent email confirmed that she had nothing to do with it.  Could it have been one of the mods?  Possibly, but I am a mod of that group and it would seem odd that someone could remove someone of equal stature.  My conclusion was that most likely I had set off Facebook's censorship algorithm by putting our Google Groups email address in the comment.  I could be wrong, but it really seemed to happen too quickly for it to be anything else.

It gets worse. I wanted to know what to do about this as no one seems to know, and the Facebook help page was of no help at all so I posted it to my own Facebook profile hoping someone who follows me there would know what to do - but none of the responses I got shed any light.  For this reason I posted it on one of the few other groups I am a member of there - the "Social Pacific Beach" group that has about 5000 members.  This time I didn't post the Group email address but I did mention "Google Groups" one so people would know what was going on - I couldn't imagine that would cause any problems but apparently I was wrong.  It didn't happen quite as quickly this time but when I returned from today's bike ride I learned that I have also now been blocked from the large "Social Pacific Beach" group that I have been a member of for some time.

Why did it happen the second time?  I guess it is possible that one of the admins on that group removed me but it seems unlikely - that group is only lightly moderated and they seem to allow just about anything.  The result though is that I am now effectively banned from social groups on the most dominant social media platform in my own neighborhood.  I have asked people to try to find out, but since I can no longer even see that group I don't know who to write to ask about it. 

What I want to make clear is this does not seem at all to be anything close to a normal moderation action. On Google Groups if a suspected spam post is detected it is simply moved to a folder and held until a moderator gets to it and either approves or deletes it. A more extreme action may cause an account to be "suspended" if that member is causing repeated problems  Unless I am missing something or don't understand how Facebook operates, this action completely obliterates your existence in that group. This strikes me as a particularly vicious and brutal way to moderate an online group, and if true I have lots to say about it, but at the moment that is not why I am posting this.  I have given this background information and am posting this for two reasons:

1.  Does anyone know what to do about this?  Can my accounts be restored?  We have a large number of Facebook users here - probably 70 percent of our members are in both groups - and even a few Facebook evangelists.  Do any of them know the procedure for fixing this?

2.  As a warning to members of this community: DO NOT, under any circumstances, use the words "Google Groups" in a post or comment on any Facebook group. Instead, use "that other group", put in some other characters in the name or something like that.

It is possible that there is some other explanation but right now the evidence seems to be point to the likelihood that those words will trigger automatic censorship from Google.   It is also possible that Facebook has me somehow flagged as one of the "bad guys" and you can post those words without incident  but I wouldn't take that chance.  Unfortunately I was hoping the discussion on that thread might help us return to the fun cooperation we had before,  but while our members might want that,  Facebook does not  - and even mentioning a competing service (which Google Groups is not) seems to set off some kind of automatic censorship of the worst kind. 

Rob

P.S. Although even a few of our members who strongly dislike Facebook have told me to throw in the towel on this group, I don't give up that easily and do not intend to shut down this shared email list anytime soon. In fact, I thought it likely that we might lose 50 or 60 members after that post telling members here to leave and was prepared to accept that - but I don't think we lost a single person. I even have an idea of how this group could be greatly improved  but my own time constraints puts that off by at least a few weeks and I want to resolve these other issues first. 

<Facebook snip.JPG>










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Re: Important warning about Facebook groups for members of this community

Rob Gordon
 

It may be an "exhausted topic" for you Zelda - but it is not for me - I have not regained access to any of my accounts. .  Since yours was the first comment here though it seems to indicate that this is being talked about elsewhere.  I read a long time ago that "defense of the absent" is an important moral principle and this seems to have started with me defending one of our members being talked about on Facebook with what seemed to be some unfounded suspicions.  If people are saying things about me that aren't true on groups that I have been blocked from accessing hope there is someone here who has the character to do the same.

I tried to resolve this privately and waited almost two full days after I was blocked before I made this post-  and it wasn't until after I made it that I got a message from the group owner last night saying that there were 10 admins on that site, and any one of them is authorized to kick members out of that community if they don't like you. I still don't think that is not what happened though - I think that comment kicked off Facebook's automatic censorship system - if it was one of the admins it happened at the exact moment I made that comment which seems unlikely. 

I needed to make this post because this could happen to any of our members - if doing nothing more than mentioning this group can get you blocked on Facebook groups that is something people need to know about.  I have a important deadline project this week and believe me that the last thing I want to do is deal with Facebook drama but people here needed to know what is going on.  Again, if you or anyone wants to leave this shared mailing list there is a link at the bottom of every message that lets you opt out.  

Everyone else can just ignore this thread if it has no relevance to you, and continue to use this list for its stated purpose: to post ideas for possible activities for people in our age group, to plan and organize those activities and to announce and promote events that have already been planned.  

Hope everyone's week has gotten off to a good start. 

Rob


On Monday, October 22, 2018 at 8:32:45 AM UTC-7, Zelda wrote:
Since you asked...too much blather. Exhausted topic. Let it go.

On Sun, Oct 21, 2018, 11:51 PM Rob Gordon <calt...@...> wrote:
I want to clarify that I am not accusing anyone of anything here - except possibly Facebook -  because I still don't believe that a human had anything to do with this, but I would like to know the facts.  Remember also, this happened on two different groups, so I am not saying anything about the PB over 40 Facebook group.   The "warning" I was issuing here had only to do with the way you word things on Facebook groups and I would advise against saying anything like:

"Wow - did you see that cool event they are planning over on Google Groups" 

or even

"I don't like that Rob guy on Google Groups - I think he is a real loser"

All I am saying is that I suspect either of these statements could get you banned from any Facebook group as well.   If you don't believe me, try it a few times to see what happens.   I want to be fully transparent about what is going on so am posting the full comment I made on that group that apparently got me banned.  Please let me know if you think this comment is inappropriate or offensive in some way and should be cause for completely banning a person from a Facebook group - not just getting the comment removed but completely banning them:.  Here is that comment in its entirety: 


@Debbilyn There is really nothing to it - to subscribe to the group go to http://pb40.club, click the "subscribe" link and enter the email address you want to use for it.  The to post to the Google Group simply send an email to pb-ov...@... with your topic in the subject line.  If someone responds, you simply reply to that message.  I am not always sure how to help people when they say it is "too hard" because there really isn't much to it. 

Some of the confusion on the part of Facebook users may be coming from thinking it is a competing social network - it is nothing like that - it is a shared email list - that's all.  The people who got this group organized all agreed to share email addresses and to allow others in the group to send them emails. There are some security controls and delivery options for people who want to limit the amount of email they get but that is about it.

The wonderful party you and Joe threw could never have been as hugely successful without it I don't think - the Nextdoor app where many of us met just isn't set up for that and for all its faults Google Groups is a good organizing tool. I may not be perfect, but I do try to help when I can. 

I do appreciate your respectful and constructive comments.  Actually though, people "not posting to both groups" is not the problem - it never has been.  When this Facebook Group started I thought it would be, but I was wrong - people did post to both groups and very little slipped through the cracks.  Recently, however, a few members seemed to have decided we don't have the right to exist and have used the system we set up to tell everyone they had to come to Facebook if they want to be part of the in crowd for this group.

The bonfire and cruise you had this weekend was I believe the first "Facebook only" event for this group.  I offered to help - and did make a calendar entry for it  - but there didn't seem to be much interest and by that time too much else was going on so I dropped it. My parents were promoters - and I do have some instincts for it so am willing to help when I can - but different kinds of events take different approaches and the host is always the one who calls the shots and decides who gets invited.

No one is under any requirement to post anything on the Google Groups shared email list  - we have good people in both groups and I think that will take care of itself.  All I ask is that people from here not attack us and refrain from trying to damage what we have built - and repeated promotion of the Facebook group there is completely unnecessary - we only have 130 member and every single one of them knows about this group.  If you are looking to increase numbers - more promotions on the "Social Pacific Beach" might work better - they have 5,000 members and this group could probably get a good chunk of them.

Thanks again for inviting me to your party - I don't get a chance to go to house parties very often so that was really special - plus the fact that you even use the word "inclusive" makes you a cool person in my book.

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Re: Important warning about Facebook groups for members of this community

Sharon Stagg <sharirae1012@...>
 

Rob

Someone mentioned to you in Social PB that an admin had blocked you. Seems it’s happened twice. I would believe them. Sharon


On Oct 21, 2018, at 8:51 PM, Rob Gordon <caltrade@...> wrote:

Hi Everyone - as you know a Facebook group spun off from this group a few months ago, and to my surprise they coexisted pretty well for a while.  Recently, however, a few members publicly announced that they would not support this group and if anyone here wanted to see all the events for "PB over 40" they would have to join that group and frequently check the Facebook.  

On the second of these top level posts I responded: that Facebook hardly needed promotional help plus it was all but impossible for anyone here to not know there is a Facebook group so those posts were not only unnecessary they were in some ways damaging to this independent group. 

On a post in the Facebook group, DebbiLyn made constructive comment about how this was dividing the community we had built, and she repeated something I have heard from other Facebook users - that they can't figure out how to use Google Groups. I wrote a fairly long comment about how we have always done much better when we work together with members on Google, Facebook and Nextdoor and we had a really good track record or organizing successful events for people our age group in this neighborhood.  First though, I wanted to address question about how to use Google so explained that all it took was to send an email to xxxx with the topic in the subject of the email.

IMMEDIATELY after I made this comment ALL access to the PB over 40 group on Facebook was blocked. The shortcuts to that group disappeared from my Facebook page, links to posts I had made there now return a "page not available" message, and even searching for "PB over 40" in the Facebook search box returns "nothing found". A private message from a member of that group confirms that I am no longer on their member list. 

So why did this happen?  First theory is that an Admin removed me from that group - but I know the group owner Lisa and that is not her style - plus she had sent me positive and encouraging messages that very day.  A subsequent email confirmed that she had nothing to do with it.  Could it have been one of the mods?  Possibly, but I am a mod of that group and it would seem odd that someone could remove someone of equal stature.  My conclusion was that most likely I had set off Facebook's censorship algorithm by putting our Google Groups email address in the comment.  I could be wrong, but it really seemed to happen too quickly for it to be anything else.

It gets worse. I wanted to know what to do about this as no one seems to know, and the Facebook help page was of no help at all so I posted it to my own Facebook profile hoping someone who follows me there would know what to do - but none of the responses I got shed any light.  For this reason I posted it on one of the few other groups I am a member of there - the "Social Pacific Beach" group that has about 5000 members.  This time I didn't post the Group email address but I did mention "Google Groups" one so people would know what was going on - I couldn't imagine that would cause any problems but apparently I was wrong.  It didn't happen quite as quickly this time but when I returned from today's bike ride I learned that I have also now been blocked from the large "Social Pacific Beach" group that I have been a member of for some time.

Why did it happen the second time?  I guess it is possible that one of the admins on that group removed me but it seems unlikely - that group is only lightly moderated and they seem to allow just about anything.  The result though is that I am now effectively banned from social groups on the most dominant social media platform in my own neighborhood.  I have asked people to try to find out, but since I can no longer even see that group I don't know who to write to ask about it. 

What I want to make clear is this does not seem at all to be anything close to a normal moderation action. On Google Groups if a suspected spam post is detected it is simply moved to a folder and held until a moderator gets to it and either approves or deletes it. A more extreme action may cause an account to be "suspended" if that member is causing repeated problems  Unless I am missing something or don't understand how Facebook operates, this action completely obliterates your existence in that group. This strikes me as a particularly vicious and brutal way to moderate an online group, and if true I have lots to say about it, but at the moment that is not why I am posting this.  I have given this background information and am posting this for two reasons:

1.  Does anyone know what to do about this?  Can my accounts be restored?  We have a large number of Facebook users here - probably 70 percent of our members are in both groups - and even a few Facebook evangelists.  Do any of them know the procedure for fixing this?

2.  As a warning to members of this community: DO NOT, under any circumstances, use the words "Google Groups" in a post or comment on any Facebook group. Instead, use "that other group", put in some other characters in the name or something like that.

It is possible that there is some other explanation but right now the evidence seems to be point to the likelihood that those words will trigger automatic censorship from Google.   It is also possible that Facebook has me somehow flagged as one of the "bad guys" and you can post those words without incident  but I wouldn't take that chance.  Unfortunately I was hoping the discussion on that thread might help us return to the fun cooperation we had before,  but while our members might want that,  Facebook does not  - and even mentioning a competing service (which Google Groups is not) seems to set off some kind of automatic censorship of the worst kind. 

Rob

P.S. Although even a few of our members who strongly dislike Facebook have told me to throw in the towel on this group, I don't give up that easily and do not intend to shut down this shared email list anytime soon. In fact, I thought it likely that we might lose 50 or 60 members after that post telling members here to leave and was prepared to accept that - but I don't think we lost a single person. I even have an idea of how this group could be greatly improved  but my own time constraints puts that off by at least a few weeks and I want to resolve these other issues first. 

<Facebook snip.JPG>










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Re: Important warning about Facebook groups for members of this community

Mia J <calmiaa@...>
 

I agree with Myobeat, Rob this is too much blather and drama.   I assume most signed on to have fun and meet cool people not to constantly down Facebook or other members. 


On Mon, Oct 22, 2018, 08:32 myobeat <myobeat61@...> wrote:
Since you asked...too much blather. Exhausted topic. Let it go.

On Sun, Oct 21, 2018, 11:51 PM Rob Gordon <caltrade@...> wrote:
I want to clarify that I am not accusing anyone of anything here - except possibly Facebook -  because I still don't believe that a human had anything to do with this, but I would like to know the facts.  Remember also, this happened on two different groups, so I am not saying anything about the PB over 40 Facebook group.   The "warning" I was issuing here had only to do with the way you word things on Facebook groups and I would advise against saying anything like:

"Wow - did you see that cool event they are planning over on Google Groups" 

or even

"I don't like that Rob guy on Google Groups - I think he is a real loser"

All I am saying is that I suspect either of these statements could get you banned from any Facebook group as well.   If you don't believe me, try it a few times to see what happens.   I want to be fully transparent about what is going on so am posting the full comment I made on that group that apparently got me banned.  Please let me know if you think this comment is inappropriate or offensive in some way and should be cause for completely banning a person from a Facebook group - not just getting the comment removed but completely banning them:.  Here is that comment in its entirety: 


@Debbilyn There is really nothing to it - to subscribe to the group go to http://pb40.club, click the "subscribe" link and enter the email address you want to use for it.  The to post to the Google Group simply send an email to pb-over-40@... with your topic in the subject line.  If someone responds, you simply reply to that message.  I am not always sure how to help people when they say it is "too hard" because there really isn't much to it. 

Some of the confusion on the part of Facebook users may be coming from thinking it is a competing social network - it is nothing like that - it is a shared email list - that's all.  The people who got this group organized all agreed to share email addresses and to allow others in the group to send them emails. There are some security controls and delivery options for people who want to limit the amount of email they get but that is about it.

The wonderful party you and Joe threw could never have been as hugely successful without it I don't think - the Nextdoor app where many of us met just isn't set up for that and for all its faults Google Groups is a good organizing tool. I may not be perfect, but I do try to help when I can. 

I do appreciate your respectful and constructive comments.  Actually though, people "not posting to both groups" is not the problem - it never has been.  When this Facebook Group started I thought it would be, but I was wrong - people did post to both groups and very little slipped through the cracks.  Recently, however, a few members seemed to have decided we don't have the right to exist and have used the system we set up to tell everyone they had to come to Facebook if they want to be part of the in crowd for this group.

The bonfire and cruise you had this weekend was I believe the first "Facebook only" event for this group.  I offered to help - and did make a calendar entry for it  - but there didn't seem to be much interest and by that time too much else was going on so I dropped it. My parents were promoters - and I do have some instincts for it so am willing to help when I can - but different kinds of events take different approaches and the host is always the one who calls the shots and decides who gets invited.

No one is under any requirement to post anything on the Google Groups shared email list  - we have good people in both groups and I think that will take care of itself.  All I ask is that people from here not attack us and refrain from trying to damage what we have built - and repeated promotion of the Facebook group there is completely unnecessary - we only have 130 member and every single one of them knows about this group.  If you are looking to increase numbers - more promotions on the "Social Pacific Beach" might work better - they have 5,000 members and this group could probably get a good chunk of them.

Thanks again for inviting me to your party - I don't get a chance to go to house parties very often so that was really special - plus the fact that you even use the word "inclusive" makes you a cool person in my book.

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Re: Important warning about Facebook groups for members of this community

Zelda
 

Since you asked...too much blather. Exhausted topic. Let it go.


On Sun, Oct 21, 2018, 11:51 PM Rob Gordon <caltrade@...> wrote:
I want to clarify that I am not accusing anyone of anything here - except possibly Facebook -  because I still don't believe that a human had anything to do with this, but I would like to know the facts.  Remember also, this happened on two different groups, so I am not saying anything about the PB over 40 Facebook group.   The "warning" I was issuing here had only to do with the way you word things on Facebook groups and I would advise against saying anything like:

"Wow - did you see that cool event they are planning over on Google Groups" 

or even

"I don't like that Rob guy on Google Groups - I think he is a real loser"

All I am saying is that I suspect either of these statements could get you banned from any Facebook group as well.   If you don't believe me, try it a few times to see what happens.   I want to be fully transparent about what is going on so am posting the full comment I made on that group that apparently got me banned.  Please let me know if you think this comment is inappropriate or offensive in some way and should be cause for completely banning a person from a Facebook group - not just getting the comment removed but completely banning them:.  Here is that comment in its entirety: 


@Debbilyn There is really nothing to it - to subscribe to the group go to http://pb40.club, click the "subscribe" link and enter the email address you want to use for it.  The to post to the Google Group simply send an email to pb-over-40@... with your topic in the subject line.  If someone responds, you simply reply to that message.  I am not always sure how to help people when they say it is "too hard" because there really isn't much to it. 

Some of the confusion on the part of Facebook users may be coming from thinking it is a competing social network - it is nothing like that - it is a shared email list - that's all.  The people who got this group organized all agreed to share email addresses and to allow others in the group to send them emails. There are some security controls and delivery options for people who want to limit the amount of email they get but that is about it.

The wonderful party you and Joe threw could never have been as hugely successful without it I don't think - the Nextdoor app where many of us met just isn't set up for that and for all its faults Google Groups is a good organizing tool. I may not be perfect, but I do try to help when I can. 

I do appreciate your respectful and constructive comments.  Actually though, people "not posting to both groups" is not the problem - it never has been.  When this Facebook Group started I thought it would be, but I was wrong - people did post to both groups and very little slipped through the cracks.  Recently, however, a few members seemed to have decided we don't have the right to exist and have used the system we set up to tell everyone they had to come to Facebook if they want to be part of the in crowd for this group.

The bonfire and cruise you had this weekend was I believe the first "Facebook only" event for this group.  I offered to help - and did make a calendar entry for it  - but there didn't seem to be much interest and by that time too much else was going on so I dropped it. My parents were promoters - and I do have some instincts for it so am willing to help when I can - but different kinds of events take different approaches and the host is always the one who calls the shots and decides who gets invited.

No one is under any requirement to post anything on the Google Groups shared email list  - we have good people in both groups and I think that will take care of itself.  All I ask is that people from here not attack us and refrain from trying to damage what we have built - and repeated promotion of the Facebook group there is completely unnecessary - we only have 130 member and every single one of them knows about this group.  If you are looking to increase numbers - more promotions on the "Social Pacific Beach" might work better - they have 5,000 members and this group could probably get a good chunk of them.

Thanks again for inviting me to your party - I don't get a chance to go to house parties very often so that was really special - plus the fact that you even use the word "inclusive" makes you a cool person in my book.

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Re: Important warning about Facebook groups for members of this community

Rob Gordon
 

I want to clarify that I am not accusing anyone of anything here - except possibly Facebook -  because I still don't believe that a human had anything to do with this, but I would like to know the facts.  Remember also, this happened on two different groups, so I am not saying anything about the PB over 40 Facebook group.   The "warning" I was issuing here had only to do with the way you word things on Facebook groups and I would advise against saying anything like:

"Wow - did you see that cool event they are planning over on Google Groups" 

or even

"I don't like that Rob guy on Google Groups - I think he is a real loser"

All I am saying is that I suspect either of these statements could get you banned from any Facebook group as well.   If you don't believe me, try it a few times to see what happens.   I want to be fully transparent about what is going on so am posting the full comment I made on that group that apparently got me banned.  Please let me know if you think this comment is inappropriate or offensive in some way and should be cause for completely banning a person from a Facebook group - not just getting the comment removed but completely banning them:.  Here is that comment in its entirety: 


@Debbilyn There is really nothing to it - to subscribe to the group go to http://pb40.club, click the "subscribe" link and enter the email address you want to use for it.  The to post to the Google Group simply send an email to pb-over-40@... with your topic in the subject line.  If someone responds, you simply reply to that message.  I am not always sure how to help people when they say it is "too hard" because there really isn't much to it. 

Some of the confusion on the part of Facebook users may be coming from thinking it is a competing social network - it is nothing like that - it is a shared email list - that's all.  The people who got this group organized all agreed to share email addresses and to allow others in the group to send them emails. There are some security controls and delivery options for people who want to limit the amount of email they get but that is about it.

The wonderful party you and Joe threw could never have been as hugely successful without it I don't think - the Nextdoor app where many of us met just isn't set up for that and for all its faults Google Groups is a good organizing tool. I may not be perfect, but I do try to help when I can. 

I do appreciate your respectful and constructive comments.  Actually though, people "not posting to both groups" is not the problem - it never has been.  When this Facebook Group started I thought it would be, but I was wrong - people did post to both groups and very little slipped through the cracks.  Recently, however, a few members seemed to have decided we don't have the right to exist and have used the system we set up to tell everyone they had to come to Facebook if they want to be part of the in crowd for this group.

The bonfire and cruise you had this weekend was I believe the first "Facebook only" event for this group.  I offered to help - and did make a calendar entry for it  - but there didn't seem to be much interest and by that time too much else was going on so I dropped it. My parents were promoters - and I do have some instincts for it so am willing to help when I can - but different kinds of events take different approaches and the host is always the one who calls the shots and decides who gets invited.

No one is under any requirement to post anything on the Google Groups shared email list  - we have good people in both groups and I think that will take care of itself.  All I ask is that people from here not attack us and refrain from trying to damage what we have built - and repeated promotion of the Facebook group there is completely unnecessary - we only have 130 member and every single one of them knows about this group.  If you are looking to increase numbers - more promotions on the "Social Pacific Beach" might work better - they have 5,000 members and this group could probably get a good chunk of them.

Thanks again for inviting me to your party - I don't get a chance to go to house parties very often so that was really special - plus the fact that you even use the word "inclusive" makes you a cool person in my book.


Important warning about Facebook groups for members of this community

Rob Gordon
 

Hi Everyone - as you know a Facebook group spun off from this group a few months ago, and to my surprise they coexisted pretty well for a while.  Recently, however, a few members publicly announced that they would not support this group and if anyone here wanted to see all the events for "PB over 40" they would have to join that group and frequently check Facebook.  

On the second of these top level posts I responded: that Facebook hardly needed promotional help plus it was all but impossible for anyone here to not know there is a Facebook group so those posts were not only unnecessary they were in some ways damaging to this independent group. 

On a post in the Facebook group, DebbiLyn made constructive comment about how this was dividing the community we had built, and she repeated something I have heard from other Facebook users - that they can't figure out how to use Google Groups. I wrote a fairly long comment about how we have always done much better when we work together with members on Google, Facebook and Nextdoor and we had a really good track record or organizing successful events for people our age group in this neighborhood.  First though, I wanted to address question about how to use Google so explained that all it took was to send an email to pb-over-40@... with the topic in the subject of the email.

IMMEDIATELY after I made this comment ALL access to the PB over 40 group on Facebook was blocked. The shortcuts to that group disappeared from my Facebook page, links to posts I had made there now return a "page not available" message, and even searching for "PB over 40" in the Facebook search box returns "nothing found". A private message from a member of that group confirms that I am no longer on their member list. 

So why did this happen?  First theory is that an Admin removed me from that group - but I know the group owner Lisa and that is not her style - plus she had sent me positive and encouraging messages that very day.  A subsequent email confirmed that she had nothing to do with it.  Could it have been one of the mods?  Possibly, but I am a mod of that group and it would seem odd that someone could remove someone of equal stature.  My conclusion was that most likely I had set off Facebook's censorship algorithm by putting our Google Groups email address in the comment.  I could be wrong, but it really seemed to happen too quickly for it to be anything else.

It gets worse. I wanted to know what to do about this as no one seems to know, and the Facebook help page was of no help at all so I posted it to my own Facebook profile hoping someone who follows me there would know what to do - but none of the responses I got shed any light.  For this reason I posted it on one of the few other groups I am a member of there - the "Social Pacific Beach" group that has about 5000 members.  This time I didn't post the Group email address but I did mention "Google Groups" one so people would know what was going on - I couldn't imagine that would cause any problems but apparently I was wrong.  It didn't happen quite as quickly this time but when I returned from today's bike ride I learned that I have also now been blocked from the large "Social Pacific Beach" group that I have been a member of for some time.

Why did it happen the second time?  I guess it is possible that one of the admins on that group removed me but it seems unlikely - that group is only lightly moderated and they seem to allow just about anything.  The result though is that I am now effectively banned from social groups on the most dominant social media platform in my own neighborhood.  I have asked people to try to find out, but since I can no longer even see that group I don't know who to write to ask about it. 

What I want to make clear is this does not seem at all to be anything close to a normal moderation action. On Google Groups if a suspected spam post is detected it is simply moved to a folder and held until a moderator gets to it and either approves or deletes it. A more extreme action may cause an account to be "suspended" if that member is causing repeated problems  Unless I am missing something or don't understand how Facebook operates, this action completely obliterates your existence in that group. This strikes me as a particularly vicious and brutal way to moderate an online group, and if true I have lots to say about it, but at the moment that is not why I am posting this.  I have given this background information and am posting this for two reasons:

1.  Does anyone know what to do about this?  Can my accounts be restored?  We have a large number of Facebook users here - probably 70 percent of our members are in both groups - and even a few Facebook evangelists.  Do any of them know the procedure for fixing this?

2.  As a warning to members of this community: DO NOT, under any circumstances, use the words "Google Groups" in a post or comment on any Facebook group. Instead, use "that other group", put in some other characters in the name or something like that.

It is possible that there is some other explanation but right now the evidence seems to be point to the likelihood that those words will trigger automatic censorship from Facebook.   It is also possible that Facebook has me somehow flagged as one of the "bad guys" and you can post those words without incident  but I wouldn't take that chance.  Unfortunately I was hoping the discussion on that thread might help us return to the fun cooperation we had before,  but while our members might want that,  Facebook does not  - and even mentioning a competing service (which Google Groups is not) seems to set off some kind of automatic censorship of the worst kind. 

Rob

P.S. Although even a few of our members who strongly dislike Facebook have told me to throw in the towel on this group, I don't give up that easily and do not intend to shut down this shared email list anytime soon. In fact, I thought it likely that we might lose 50 or 60 members after that post telling members here to leave and was prepared to accept that - but I don't think we lost a single person. I even have an idea of how this group could be greatly improved  but my own time constraints puts that off by at least a few weeks and I want to resolve these other issues first. 

Facebook snip.JPG











Re: Beach Cruiser Convoy to Ocean Beach for CicloSDias

Val
 

Thank you Rob, It was fun!! Thank you for organizing it! I will try to make it to as many bike ride as possible :) 

On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 3:20 PM Rob Gordon <caltrade@...> wrote:
Val just sent me this pic of the group  - also at Quivira Basin.  Thanks for a great ride guys - you don't know how much I needed it.

Rob

ob bike 7.JPG




On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 3:14:36 PM UTC-7, Rob Gordon wrote:
Stopped at Quivira Basin on the return trip to look at the boats - it is so pretty here.

ob bike 6.jpg


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Re: Beach Cruiser Convoy to Ocean Beach for CicloSDias

Rob Gordon
 

Val just sent me this pic of the group  - also at Quivira Basin.  Thanks for a great ride guys - you don't know how much I needed it.

Rob

ob bike 7.JPG




On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 3:14:36 PM UTC-7, Rob Gordon wrote:
Stopped at Quivira Basin on the return trip to look at the boats - it is so pretty here.

ob bike 6.jpg



Re: Beach Cruiser Convoy to Ocean Beach for CicloSDias

Rob Gordon
 

Stopped at Quivira Basin on the return trip to look at the boats - it is so pretty here.

ob bike 6.jpg



Re: Beach Cruiser Convoy to Ocean Beach for CicloSDias

Rob Gordon
 

Near disaster when Marie's tires got tangled in fishing line, but this nice man helped cut her free. 

ob bike 4.jpg



On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 3:06:33 PM UTC-7, Rob Gordon wrote:
The group decided to check out the OB Pier . - bike riding not allowed so we walked and did some sightseeing.  Pretty cool - lots of fishermen and the fog was rolling in.

ob bike 5.jpg



On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 3:01:41 PM UTC-7, Rob Gordon wrote:
I had to stop at a gas station to fill my tires and I snapped a picture of this motley bicycle crew


ob bike 1.jpg



On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 2:56:43 PM UTC-7, Rob Gordon wrote:
A slow bike ride to ocean beach - and we reached bicycle nirvana.  

ob bike 3.jpg



On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 2:52:54 PM UTC-7, Rob Gordon wrote:
Awesome group of people showed up for today's ride.  Also, we seem to have broken the PB40  bike club jinx of "one flat tire every ride".   Everyone had a nice ride and returned home without incident.   Only one minor glitch - Angela brought her roller blades and we missed her text message for the return trip home.  Sorry Angela!


ob bike 0.jpg





On Saturday, October 13, 2018 at 7:14:12 PM UTC-7, Rob Gordon wrote:
CicloSDias is an event that started in Bogotá, Columbia and became a movement that spread worldwide.  On one special day, city streets in urban areas are closed to vehicle traffic and the business district is open only to pedestrians, bike riders, skaters, etc. Ocean Beach will be having one on Sunday. October 21 and it is a perfect excuse for a lazy bike ride.  

Let's meet at Fanuel Park at 11am. Should take less than an hour to get there. Goof around in OB and eat some street food or whatever, and then bike back. Post your location if you want to join us on route.

Looks like we got us a convoy!   

OB CicloSDias.jpg


Re: Beach Cruiser Convoy to Ocean Beach for CicloSDias

Rob Gordon
 

The group decided to check out the OB Pier . - bike riding not allowed so we walked and did some sightseeing.  Pretty cool - lots of fishermen and the fog was rolling in.

ob bike 5.jpg



On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 3:01:41 PM UTC-7, Rob Gordon wrote:
I had to stop at a gas station to fill my tires and I snapped a picture of this motley bicycle crew


ob bike 1.jpg



On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 2:56:43 PM UTC-7, Rob Gordon wrote:
A slow bike ride to ocean beach - and we reached bicycle nirvana.  

ob bike 3.jpg



On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 2:52:54 PM UTC-7, Rob Gordon wrote:
Awesome group of people showed up for today's ride.  Also, we seem to have broken the PB40  bike club jinx of "one flat tire every ride".   Everyone had a nice ride and returned home without incident.   Only one minor glitch - Angela brought her roller blades and we missed her text message for the return trip home.  Sorry Angela!


ob bike 0.jpg





On Saturday, October 13, 2018 at 7:14:12 PM UTC-7, Rob Gordon wrote:
CicloSDias is an event that started in Bogotá, Columbia and became a movement that spread worldwide.  On one special day, city streets in urban areas are closed to vehicle traffic and the business district is open only to pedestrians, bike riders, skaters, etc. Ocean Beach will be having one on Sunday. October 21 and it is a perfect excuse for a lazy bike ride.  

Let's meet at Fanuel Park at 11am. Should take less than an hour to get there. Goof around in OB and eat some street food or whatever, and then bike back. Post your location if you want to join us on route.

Looks like we got us a convoy!   

OB CicloSDias.jpg


Re: Beach Cruiser Convoy to Ocean Beach for CicloSDias

Rob Gordon
 

I had to stop at a gas station to fill my tires and I snapped a picture of this motley bicycle crew


ob bike 1.jpg



On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 2:56:43 PM UTC-7, Rob Gordon wrote:
A slow bike ride to ocean beach - and we reached bicycle nirvana.  

ob bike 3.jpg



On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 2:52:54 PM UTC-7, Rob Gordon wrote:
Awesome group of people showed up for today's ride.  Also, we seem to have broken the PB40  bike club jinx of "one flat tire every ride".   Everyone had a nice ride and returned home without incident.   Only one minor glitch - Angela brought her roller blades and we missed her text message for the return trip home.  Sorry Angela!


ob bike 0.jpg





On Saturday, October 13, 2018 at 7:14:12 PM UTC-7, Rob Gordon wrote:
CicloSDias is an event that started in Bogotá, Columbia and became a movement that spread worldwide.  On one special day, city streets in urban areas are closed to vehicle traffic and the business district is open only to pedestrians, bike riders, skaters, etc. Ocean Beach will be having one on Sunday. October 21 and it is a perfect excuse for a lazy bike ride.  

Let's meet at Fanuel Park at 11am. Should take less than an hour to get there. Goof around in OB and eat some street food or whatever, and then bike back. Post your location if you want to join us on route.

Looks like we got us a convoy!   

OB CicloSDias.jpg


Re: Beach Cruiser Convoy to Ocean Beach for CicloSDias

Rob Gordon
 

A slow bike ride to ocean beach - and we reached bicycle nirvana.  

ob bike 3.jpg



On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 2:52:54 PM UTC-7, Rob Gordon wrote:
Awesome group of people showed up for today's ride.  Also, we seem to have broken the PB40  bike club jinx of "one flat tire every ride".   Everyone had a nice ride and returned home without incident.   Only one minor glitch - Angela brought her roller blades and we missed her text message for the return trip home.  Sorry Angela!


ob bike 0.jpg





On Saturday, October 13, 2018 at 7:14:12 PM UTC-7, Rob Gordon wrote:
CicloSDias is an event that started in Bogotá, Columbia and became a movement that spread worldwide.  On one special day, city streets in urban areas are closed to vehicle traffic and the business district is open only to pedestrians, bike riders, skaters, etc. Ocean Beach will be having one on Sunday. October 21 and it is a perfect excuse for a lazy bike ride.  

Let's meet at Fanuel Park at 11am. Should take less than an hour to get there. Goof around in OB and eat some street food or whatever, and then bike back. Post your location if you want to join us on route.

Looks like we got us a convoy!   

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